1. Sheldon Dingwall
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  3. Friday, 11 January 2008
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This is the last project we've been working on for NAMM. It's a little brother to the Afterburner. There are a few details to be worked out and financing to be sourced but the goal is to put this into production at a really attractive street price.
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Dragonlord Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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[quote="Smallmouth_Bass":2soxiemx]Seeing as how the lower strings are very rarely used way up on the neck (e.g. low B at the 24th fret), what about making the butt end of the fretboard "straight" (like a regular parallel fret bass) and just have a partial fret at the bottom? So you'd probably only be cutting, or partially cutting off two frets really. This would also give a little more room to slap and decrease the fanned look.[/quote:2soxiemx]
Great idea IMO, best of both worlds
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[quote="Smallmouth_Bass":1v70htkm]Seeing as how the lower strings are very rarely used way up on the neck (e.g. low B at the 24th fret), what about making the butt end of the fretboard "straight" (like a regular parallel fret bass) and just have a partial fret at the bottom? So you'd probably only be cutting, or partially cutting off two frets really. This would also give a little more room to slap and [b:1v70htkm]decrease the fanned look[/b:1v70htkm].[/quote:1v70htkm]

The fanned look is the big thing aesthetically with any Dingwall. The way I see it, a "cheap" Dingwall would be a good way to get the name out there. People need to see the fan to really remember the bass. I'm just throwing my opinion out there.
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[quote="nastyn8c":1zgvd6gj]

The fanned look is the big thing aesthetically with any Dingwall. The way I see it, a "cheap" Dingwall would be a good way to get the name out there. People need to see the fan to really remember the bass. I'm just throwing my opinion out there.[/quote:1zgvd6gj]

I agree. However, if part of the reason is to not make it look as scary and decrease the appearance and severity of fanning, this might be a good option. It sounds like part of the reason a 22-fret is being considered is for that.

Once you get the players on them, it won't really matter.
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Sheldon Dingwall Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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Thanks for the input guys. Some questions have been posed so I'll do my best to answer them in one shot.

[i:2wx3vu4s]I also prefer a slightly arched fret board to flat ones. I guess what I've been longing for is a thin (not narrow) Fender style neck but with fanned frets. Would that increase the production cost? [/i:2wx3vu4s]

We'll be sticking with the AB formula for dimensions. Or at least as close as we can.

[i:2wx3vu4s]Ideas?, maybe an AB1 with a one piece body outsourced, coming in as few colours as possible, maybe with a 22 fret neck and only 1 pickup and dialled in to a particular Dingwall tone that would provide good general utility but not the specialized range of tones we are starting to demand (respectfully!). [/i:2wx3vu4s]

We'll likely do the single pickup down the road. I'd like to have a custom parallelogram shell made for it though so that will happen when I can afford it.

[i:2wx3vu4s]Keep the same aspects as the Z's, AB's and budget model consistent ie scale length, STRING SPACING, MAKE THE SC'S HAVE THE SAME SIZE HOUSING as FD3's or the SJ/SJ Phatties SO PEOPLE CAN UPGRADE pu's later. [/i:2wx3vu4s]

That was the original idea. We ran into a problem with the available shells. We couldn't get a size that fit all of our coils. I might be able to make it work with EMG size shells. They're a little on the large and blocky looking side. I'll draw it up.

[i:2wx3vu4s]The flame top is nice. You could downgrade the quality of the top to cut some costs, but then you might as well use a fake flame top - I've seen some pretty convincing ones. Is paint really any cheaper per unit than a top? Offer maybe 3 metallic colors (a red, a blue, and a black), and offer 2 colors with "fancy" tops, natural and blackburst. As far as how to set the body apart, droop the bottom cutaway like a PA? [/i:2wx3vu4s]

We'll likely offer a choice of both top and solid finish. We can have a pretty extensive choice of colors at the moment. I'm currently drawn toward dark metallics. Midnight blue, midnight purple, midnight red, etc. I'd love it if we could do some wackier colors like the pearl Granny Smith and orange colors too.
[i:2wx3vu4s]
The string thing will be a problem for some, unless the 'alternative' string choices become more well known to prospective buyers.[/i:2wx3vu4s]

How about including a card with the alternate string choices listed?

[i:2wx3vu4s]Is it me or is the body shape a little slimmer in the waist? I also see 4 knobs, what are you thinking now for electrics? [/i:2wx3vu4s]

To be honest, I can't really remember if I tightened up the waist or not. I did re-work the curves to make them smoother though. The electronics will be Vol, Vol, Bass, Treble.

[i:2wx3vu4s]A while back you said that Hipshot treats your AB bridges as custom pricing. What if you committed to the same bridge as the AB's and just purchased way more to get a volume price break. It would be less labor intensive to install too.[/i:2wx3vu4s]

You've got a point on the labor to install an AB bridge VS the individuals. The economies of scale still make the individuals a less expensive alternative.

[i:2wx3vu4s]Seeing as how the lower strings are very rarely used way up on the neck (e.g. low B at the 24th fret), what about making the butt end of the fretboard "straight" (like a regular parallel fret bass) and just have a partial fret at the bottom? So you'd probably only be cutting, or partially cutting off two frets really. This would also give a little more room to slap and decrease the fanned look.[/i:2wx3vu4s]

I'll have to draw that up to make sure the blunt angle of the fingerboard doesn't clash with the angles of the frets and pickups.

[i:2wx3vu4s]A large control Cavity would allow for mods without butchering the body [/i:2wx3vu4s]

That's a good point. I'll see what can fit.
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Funkshwey Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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A couple of other things, not sure if they've been mentioned.

Are there any plans to try to hide the maple neck block heel showing on the front like on the ABI's?

It looks like your design has this already but definitely try to have the PU's follow the fanning so PU placement doesn't "look" random. I've checked the harmonics directly above the FD3 rails and the placement is dead on on my ABII5's. But, following the fanning would give less of an excuse not to purchase.

I think if you block off some of the upper frets straight, even if it's the low strings, potential buyers might feel like they're being short changed. I'd still like to see a CAD though.

We need to find out what potential buyers want in a budget DW that have never played one or feel they can't afford the current models.
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Dragonlord Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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[quote="Funkshwey":3erxx10v]We need to find out what potential buyers want in a budget DW that have never played one or feel they can't afford the current models.[/quote:3erxx10v]
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=430233
Hope it becomes an interesting and useful conversation.
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FrankM Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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Dragonlord--
the thread is already heading the way everyone here is expecting.
the fanned frets are "scarey", but I'm not sure how you get past it
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Unless you get people to touch them and have them played side by side with their favorite basses, most people are scared to even think of acquiring one. Once the get to play them and listen (in comparison with ...) they start to understand
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yes Fullie--
its an obvious
but how do you convince a players whose never touched one of these basses to NOT be scared??
I know i took the plunge sight unseen, but you've got alot of players who are entrenched in the parallel fretboards, and I'd handed my Dingwalls over to a number of players (including my fanned fretless), and all have said the same thing, its not so scarey once your touching the bass.
So maybe, just maybe having more of these basses out there for humans to touch will bypass they fear.

maybe sheldon needs a media campaign w/ a supermodel holding/playing his basses
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I am not the conventional bass player who plays and listens with his eyes. When I got hooked on the Dingwall magic, I was talking and bringing my bass to every possible gig, rehearsal or studio. I am sure that we all do that.

Now that I start having higher profile gigs (very different styles and hopefully different places and countries) more people will see my Dingwalls, so few more people will be inclined to try (most of the people that attend a gig are probably listening to that style of music, esp if they are musicians). I am by no way an endorser; I am just a very good yet VERY DEMANDING customer and Sheldon and the crew deliver. I have found sonic Nirvana at all levels and it shows from the different Dingwalls that I own; Dragonlord has heard many of them and I am sure he can chime in about the diversity of sounds of different Dingwalls.
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[quote="fullrangebass":ygdo2gmo]Dragonlord has heard many of them and I am sure he can chime in about the diversity of sounds of different Dingwalls.[/quote:ygdo2gmo]
Seriously, the fact that after directly comparing them to high-end Foderas, Sei, Status, Wal and a lot of other "boutique" brands I forgot about anything else and only see Dingwalls in my future (and on my bass stand) says it all.
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Dragonlord Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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On topic, Sheldon, I'm starting to think that the single best thing you could do about this new line would be to make a deal with Guitar Center or at least Musicians Friend (with its return policy). If Jorg Schroeder can do it, then surely should you as well. I believe the thing scaring away bassists, apart from the price, is not how the 24 frets look but the sole fact that they haven't played one themselves. Do you think you could make a deal with a big chain, at least for this line only?
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Funkshwey Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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Sheldon, would you consider doing a more traditional style headstock maybe like an SJ w/out the route on the front? Perhaps that would entice the headstock naysayers.

Just to be clear, is the body styling right below the strap button going to be for a jack like on the AB's? This would be good for those wanting to sit and play.

It looks like 24 frets and no PG is going to be the way to go if my poll continues to follow the same trend. I'll add headstock to the poll.
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Dragonlord Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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[quote="Funkshwey":qqxwso5s]Sheldon, would you consider doing a more traditional style headstock maybe like an SJ w/out the route on the front? Perhaps that would entice the headstock naysayers.[/quote:qqxwso5s]
I don't think what one person says on TB should make Sheldon change the headstock. For each one who wants a bigger headstock, there could be 1000 who don't - it's the first time I hear this complaint, and you can't please everyone. IMO the headstock is great as is.

One more point which has been brought up on the TB thread: the chrome knobs. Why? The black ones can't be more expensive, at least not much. Chrome screams "cheap", which is unforgivable at the $1000 price range.
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Funkshwey Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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[quote="Dragonlord":35znz2xd][quote="Funkshwey":35znz2xd]Sheldon, would you consider doing a more traditional style headstock maybe like an SJ w/out the route on the front? Perhaps that would entice the headstock naysayers.[/quote:35znz2xd]
I don't think what one person says on TB should make Sheldon change the headstock. For each one who wants a bigger headstock, there could be 1000 who don't - it's the first time I hear this complaint, and you can't please everyone. IMO the headstock is great as is.

One more point which has been brought up on the TB thread: the chrome knobs. Why? The black ones can't be more expensive, at least not much. Chrome screams "cheap", which is unforgivable at the $1000 price range.[/quote:35znz2xd]

I realise that Dragon, that's why I posted another poll to better judge.

I actually like chrome better. So both would probably be an easy option for Sheldon to consider.
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BurningSkies Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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Howzabout everyone chill a bit about this...

...I mean, from where I'm standing, a bit of discretion goes a long way...No one wants their decision making process debated on a public forum, even though everyone has the best of intentions.
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[quote="BurningSkies":37nup79g]Howzabout everyone chill a bit about this...

...I mean, from where I'm standing, a bit of discretion goes a long way...No one wants their decision making process debated on a public forum, even though everyone has the best of intentions.[/quote:37nup79g]

I am chilled.

Mmm, I hadn't thought of the polls being a negative. They are only asking basically 2 questions 22 or 24 and headstock choice. I'll delete them if Sheldon feels they are unneccesary. I definitely have good intentions. If Sheldon had asked directly it might have violated TB rules.

Man now I feel like I may have done a bad thing.
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Dragonlord Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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[quote="BurningSkies":12slbn27]Howzabout everyone chill a bit about this...

...I mean, from where I'm standing, a bit of discretion goes a long way...No one wants their decision making process debated on a public forum, even though everyone has the best of intentions.[/quote:12slbn27]
Well, I thought about it before making my thread, but you know, this IS a public forum - like TB. I wouldn't have gone public with it if Sheldon hadn't... That said, if he wants, I'll close/delete the TB thread (if possible).
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Hi Folks

Some of these comments have really made me think about 'Dingwall Perception'. I was at a fundraiser recently and, with my favourite lady drummer, formed the core of the house band with other musicians turning up to do their bit. Several very talented local bassists showed up but were unwilling to use my DW so that they could take a turn on bass, the reason was, as many of you have pointed out, they were scared of the fanned frets.
I wonder if this is just human nature where, generally, folk tend to stick to what they have been accustomed to and shy away from anything different. If so then this gets at the fundamental (no pun intended) issue here. The USP's of DWs are the amazing tone and the distinctive looks, both of which are somewhat intrinsic to the fanned frets. I agree that it might be a good idea for Sheldon to try to get a major distribution deal for the entry level DW to help buffer the novelty factor and get more DWs in more hands around the world. If this is successful it might also assist the development of Sheldon's high end basses as there will be more cash flow for R and D, staff and equipment etc and greater recognition of Sheldon's amazing work.
So to sum up, we have all put in our little DW peccadillo's but really what is required is a good all round DW the makes price point, represents the tone and quality that is synonymous with the name, and has general appeal, and has the support of a major distributor. This will serve to introduce new bassists to fanned frets and DW sound and generate the sales to take our favourite luthier to the next level.

N
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BurningSkies Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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[quote="Nic DB":197h9go1]Hi Folks

Some of these comments have really made me think about 'Dingwall Perception'. I was at a fundraiser recently and, with my favourite lady drummer, formed the core of the house band with other musicians turning up to do their bit. Several very talented local bassists showed up but were unwilling to use my DW so that they could take a turn on bass, the reason was, as many of you have pointed out, they were scared of the fanned frets.
I wonder if this is just human nature where, generally, folk tend to stick to what they have been accustomed to and shy away from anything different. If so then this gets at the fundamental (no pun intended) issue here. The USP's of DWs are the amazing tone and the distinctive looks, both of which are somewhat intrinsic to the fanned frets. I agree that it might be a good idea for Sheldon to try to get a major distribution deal for the entry level DW to help buffer the novelty factor and get more DWs in more hands around the world. If this is successful it might also assist the development of Sheldon's high end basses as there will be more cash flow for R and D, staff and equipment etc and greater recognition of Sheldon's amazing work.
So to sum up, we have all put in our little DW peccadillo's but really what is required is a good all round DW the makes price point, represents the tone and quality that is synonymous with the name, and has general appeal, and has the support of a major distributor. This will serve to introduce new bassists to fanned frets and DW sound and generate the sales to take our favourite luthier to the next level.

N[/quote:197h9go1]

...

You know, I agree.
The problem is that on any public forum 50% is productive discussion, and 50% is just crank. Some people just want a Jazz bass, and that
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