1. Sheldon Dingwall
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  3. Saturday, 23 February 2008
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We've got a nice run of Z's going at the moment. Another one to start soon.

Some of you may recognize these bodies already.
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Dragonlord Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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Good decision, to be honest I never understood going with super fatties on Zs. OK, I'm sure they're great for the super J, but it's a more traditional oriented tone, with less definition and harmonic content. FD-3s are incredible pickups and I wouldn't want an AB/Z/Prima with fatties instead of FD-3s. That's where my excitement about the Z3 ended too.
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John H. Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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[quote="Dragonlord":1fosrbj5]Good decision, to be honest I never understood going with super fatties on Zs. OK, I'm sure they're great for the super J, but it's a more traditional oriented tone, with less definition and harmonic content. FD-3s are incredible pickups and I wouldn't want an AB/Z/Prima with fatties instead of FD-3s. That's where my excitement about the Z3 ended too.[/quote:1fosrbj5]

Hi Dragonlord,

Where did you get the impression that the Super Fatties have less definition and harmonic content than the FD-3s? When I played the FD-3s and Fatties side by side (my ABII and twoport's Z3), I didn't get that impression. They were different in subtle ways, but I don't think one was less than the other. Let me know your experience.

Thanks,

John
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Mark L Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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[quote="John H.":8lziljaz][quote="Dragonlord":8lziljaz]Good decision, to be honest I never understood going with super fatties on Zs. OK, I'm sure they're great for the super J, but it's a more traditional oriented tone, with less definition and harmonic content. FD-3s are incredible pickups and I wouldn't want an AB/Z/Prima with fatties instead of FD-3s. That's where my excitement about the Z3 ended too.[/quote:8lziljaz]

Hi Dragonlord,

Where did you get the impression that the Super Fatties have less definition and harmonic content than the FD-3s? When I played the FD-3s and Fatties side by side (my ABII and twoport's Z3), I didn't get that impression. They were different in subtle ways, but I don't think one was less than the other. Let me know your experience.

Thanks,

John[/quote:8lziljaz]

+1, John. I see the Fatties as having all the qualities the FD3 has, but they're hotter and punchier. You can dial it in to sound like FDs if you want. It's the Dingwall pickup that you can get to break up if you push it. I can get very convincing P and J bass tones, or modern tones out of my Z3. The Fatties rock.

Mark
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evilgus Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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Good discussion, guys, I've also been contemplating a custom Z order and wondering whether to try Fatties or stick with FD-3 4Ls. My ABII is really rocking my socks off and I don't want to lose that general sound, but also not sure I could afford to keep both basses.

Given I rarely use passive mode and generally have some bass & treble boost going, would Fatties give me something similar with flat EQ? (At least the bass boost bit.)

Cheers,

EG
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[quote="evilgus":8rceteq0]Given I rarely use passive mode and generally have some bass & treble boost going, would Fatties give me something similar with flat EQ? (At least the bass boost bit.)

Cheers,

EG[/quote:8rceteq0]

Yes, I'm sure you could dial it in. Speaking of pickups, I have said in the past, and have also mentioned to Sheldon, my only niggle with my Dingwalls was that I couldn't get the bridge pickups to bark and fart like a Jazz bass. I've heard FD1s have that tone, but somebody else will have to confirm that. The Mach pickups that Sheldon put in my Voodoo came closer to getting that tone, but still lacked that certain midrange bump I wanted. The Fatties have that tone available, but with the switching options available a Z3 can pull off any tone you should need. When I get another upmarket Dingwall, it will definitely have Fatties.

Mark
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Mark--
I have FD1s in my ABI.
I don't think - at least it hasn't -farted or burped for me. The pickups are super punchy, tons of mids, aggressive sounding. Not like any fender Jazz bass I've ever played.

Now my rear p'up on my SJ has a lot of bark in it, but i believe its a one off from Sheldon
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Dragonlord Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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[quote="John H.":1lgj4rgk]Hi Dragonlord,

Where did you get the impression that the Super Fatties have less definition and harmonic content than the FD-3s? When I played the FD-3s and Fatties side by side (my ABII and twoport's Z3), I didn't get that impression. They were different in subtle ways, but I don't think one was less than the other. Let me know your experience.

Thanks,

John[/quote:1lgj4rgk]
By A/Bing a Z3 to Zs and Primas with FD-3. I found the low B definition a bit lacking. Still, I know it can work for a lot of people - for example, I don't like bartolini pickups and they are among the most popular out there, so your mileage may definitely vary. I still think that super fatties will appeal more to the more traditional crowd.
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[quote="Dragonlord":31ki0n82]
By A/Bing a Z3 to Zs and Primas with FD-3. I found the low B definition a bit lacking. Still, I know it can work for a lot of people - for example, I don't like bartolini pickups and they are among the most popular out there, so your mileage may definitely vary. I still think that super fatties will appeal more to the more traditional crowd.[/quote:31ki0n82]

That's interesting as one of Sheldon's goals with the Super Fattie is better definiton of the low B.

Mark, others with a Z3, any definition differences that you notice on the B between the different pups?
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[quote="FrankM":7dipzs5r]Mark--
I have FD1s in my ABI.
I don't think - at least it hasn't -farted or burped for me. The pickups are super punchy, tons of mids, aggressive sounding. Not like any fender Jazz bass I've ever played.

Now my rear p'up on my SJ has a lot of bark in it, but i believe its a one off from Sheldon[/quote:7dipzs5r]

Well, IMO, that's how all of my Jazz basses have sounded with the bridge soloed, how you described the FD1s, so... I'm sure plucking attack has more that a bit to do with it also.

My SJ also will bark pretty nicely with the bridge soloed.

As far as the Z3 having a weaker B string tone, I haven't noticed it, but I haven't A-B'ed my basses. Could it be the more present mids of the Fatties makes it seem like D.lord is hearing less B string from a Z3 ?
I can't imagine that would slip by Sheldon, or that that would have been his goal w/ the Fatties.

Mark

Mark
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fullrangebass Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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[quote="guitarded":3huk3o5v]

As far as the Z3 having a weaker B string tone, I haven't noticed it, but I haven't A-B'ed my basses. Could it be the more present mids of the Fatties makes it seem like D.lord is hearing less B string from a Z3 ?
I can't imagine that would slip by Sheldon, or that that would have been his goal w/ the Fatties.

Mark[/quote:3huk3o5v]

It's not a matter of a weaker (or lesser) B string with the Super Fatties. The B is big, the mids are more singing and pronounced but the snap and clarity of the B string is not as great as with the FDs (FD3's and PAs)

The Super Fatties come from the Super J front and while retaining many tonal nuances of the FD's, they are a different animal (esp regarding the B string)
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evilgus Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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Maybe slightly off-topic, but are the finishes on Z basses quite shiny and do they show smudges and fingerprints easily? I had a *cough* Spector bass for a few weeks and the worst thing about it was how many marks it showed, regardless of how careful you were with it. Much prefer satin finishes and sometimes, natural oil finishes.

Cheers,

EG
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fullrangebass Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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The great thing about Dingwall is that they are made by Sheldon!!! oops, wrong speech!!! :wink: (still ti's true)


Ok, I've found the proper speech :P

Another great thing is that the "dipped glass" finish, as well as oil finishes on Dingwall basses, don't show the fingerprints and smudges. I wipe my strings and neck every time I play, but the body does not get that kind of treatment every time (maybe every second or third time :oops: )
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Dragonlord Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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[quote="guitarded":2cxsau9t]As far as the Z3 having a weaker B string tone, I haven't noticed it, but I haven't A-B'ed my basses. Could it be the more present mids of the Fatties makes it seem like D.lord is hearing less B string from a Z3 ?
I can't imagine that would slip by Sheldon, or that that would have been his goal w/ the Fatties.[/quote:2cxsau9t]
Don't get confused, that's not what I said by any means! The low B is as strong and full as in any Dingwall, it's just not as clear-as-a-bell as with FD-3s. Just a different flavour really. It's just that the FD-3 is such a fantastic pickup that, [i:2cxsau9t]for my taste[/i:2cxsau9t], super fatties somewhat don't do justice to a Z. Still, if someone finds FD-3s too hi-fi, I can see how they could prefer super fatties. You just gotta keep on your mind that, AFAIK, the fatties were developed for the super j 5, so if that's the sound you like choose them, otherwise if you like the dingwall sound as we know it from ABs, Zs and Primas then FD-3 it is. I don't see the super fatties as an improved FD-3 (and I guess nor does Sheldon, otherwise they'd be called FD-4) but as a pickup going to a somewhat different direction tonally.
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BurningSkies Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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I think most of the posters here have already seen this, but in the off chance that they haven't, here's a detailed thread at TB with more pictures and details of my Z build...

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=461332

:D
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Dragonlord Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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Calling Jjango! Could we please get a Z3 with FD-3s instead of super fatties? So that we can see how much space would three FD-3s leave. Thanks!
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[quote="Dragonlord":2z07l52l]Calling Jjango! Could we please get a Z3 with FD-3s instead of super fatties? So that we can see how much space would three FD-3s leave. Thanks![/quote:2z07l52l]

Sheldon initially tried to make FDs fit on the Z3, but it was too crowded. I thought I wanted them anyway, and he was going to do it, but I decided on Fatties instead :) . I love 'em. I guess you could use FDs, but don't get a 24 fret neck with them if you slap much- you wouldn't have room.

Mark
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John H. Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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[quote="guitarded":2y0x62pf]

Sheldon initially tried to make FDs fit on the Z3, but it was too crowded. I thought I wanted them anyway, and he was going to do it, but I decided on Fatties instead :) . I love 'em. I guess you could use FDs, but don't get a 24 fret neck with them if you slap much- you wouldn't have room.

Mark[/quote:2y0x62pf]

Yeah, I thought I'd go with the FD-3s, too, but I tried Twoport's Z3 right after NAMM and liked the Fattys. Plus, this way, I'll have two DWs, each with a slightly different sound.

Mark, I'm not sure how having FD-3s would affect slapping. I always presumed a Z-FD-3, if you will, would be a Z2 with the addition of the neck pickup in the same position as the Z1 (but maybe it's the position of the neck pup that is the problem you're referring to).

John
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Dragonlord Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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[quote="guitarded":1s245y3w][quote="Dragonlord":1s245y3w]Calling Jjango! Could we please get a Z3 with FD-3s instead of super fatties? So that we can see how much space would three FD-3s leave. Thanks![/quote:1s245y3w]

Sheldon initially tried to make FDs fit on the Z3, but it was too crowded. I thought I wanted them anyway, and he was going to do it, but I decided on Fatties instead :) . I love 'em. I guess you could use FDs, but don't get a 24 fret neck with them if you slap much- you wouldn't have room.

Mark[/quote:1s245y3w]
Yep, I know that, actually I talked with Dingwall Sales a bit about the possibility of ordering a walnut-bodied Z-FD-3 but that took us into prima artist territory, which means $10k+ and I would really struggle to afford it. Imagining it myself, I also think that it would be really crowded with FD-3s (one more reason why I didn't order the bass), but since we have Jjango around I thought it would be nice to have a picture and see exactly what it would look like.
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"][quote="guitarded":20pyp7pm]

Sheldon initially tried to make FDs fit on the Z3, but it was too crowded. I thought I wanted them anyway, and he was going to do it, but I decided on Fatties instead :) . I love 'em. I guess you could use FDs, but don't get a 24 fret neck with them if you slap much- you wouldn't have room.

Mark[/quote:20pyp7pm]

[quote="John H":20pyp7pm]...maybe it's the position of the neck pup that is the problem you're referring to).

John[/quote:20pyp7pm]

Exactly. The FD is nearly twice as wide as the Fattie and crowds the neck. I wonder if you could get a Fattie at the neck and FDs at the back?

Mark
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BurningSkies Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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Hey Sheldon, thought you might like this comment from my Z thread at TB...

[i:17r59h3f]"That last pic! That contour! That shape! Oh my!

That's the best shape Sheldon has ever done! Voodoo shape with sculpted curve. Fantastic."[/i:17r59h3f]


Of course, I agree!
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