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  3. Tuesday, 11 May 2010
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Ok, it's been a while since we've done this. We all have different tonal goals and settings, but its always fun to see what people are using to amplify their Dingwall Basses with! This is a chance to post up your current amp/cab/bass setup. If you use effects, don't forget those either!

[img:s3q5vk9z]http://homepage.mac.com/burningskies/.Pictures/IMG_0055-5.jpg[/img:s3q5vk9z]

[img:s3q5vk9z]http://homepage.mac.com/burningskies/.Pictures/IMG_0060-6.jpg[/img:s3q5vk9z]

Dingwall Zebra 1/Voodoo with my fEarful 15/6+15/Sub setup. For now the head is a Markbass LMII, but I have one of the new Peavey IPR 4500 power amps on order. That should give me just north of 2kw of power on tap most of the time.

LET'S SEE 'EM Everyone!
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Amodeo - looks like a bass store!
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[quote="amodeo@mitre.org":1qzjzkul]I may have posted some of these pix on other threads, but as long as we're talking about amps, I might as well jump in.

Like many of you, I have more than one bass, and like some of you, more than one amp. My most powerful rig is an Alembic F-1X preamp, Alembic SF-2 Superfilter, Crest CA-9 power amp (2 x 900w into 4ohms), and Schroeder 410 and 21012 cabs. More power than I'll ever need. When playing an outdoor concert with no PA support, I need to set the amp way off to the side or else it will just overpower everything else in the mix on stage.

I also use a pair of Eden 210-XLT cabs (don't currently have a good photo to post). I have several other amps to pick from as well. Here they are (note however that the Crest CA-4 in the following photo is currently paired with an Aguilar DB659 preamp rather than the SWR Interstellar Overdrive shown).
[/quote:1qzjzkul]

I've always wanted to try the Alembic Preamp. What do you think about it in terms of tone and usability? How about the Superfilter?
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I have been using that Alembic preamp since the late 1990's. When I had only one bass rig, it consisted of the F-1X and the Crest CA-4 (and before long the SF-2).

IMO, the Alembic F-1X yields a very nice tone, but a very nice clean tone. No real tube grit at all, unlike the Aguilar preamps, which can get a bit of tube crunch if one cranks the gain. In fact, the Alembic has no separate gain and master controls, just a volume, so the only way to increase gain without increasing volume would be to use the attenuators on the power amp.

The Superfilter is a very versatile tone-shaping circuit. It has two independent filters that can be set to low-pass, band-pass, or high-pass, each with a frequency and Q control. These two filters can be wired in parallel (e.g., to have independent tone control on each of two stereo channels) or in series. It is very easy to add a subtle mid-range accent (or not so subtle if you prefer), or to give some real low-end boost to compensate for speakers that roll off the lows. It doesn't work as a notch filter, however.

All in all, both pieces are quality gear.
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Thanks for the quality response. Next time I get the chance to try one, I'll definitely keep this in mind.

I really like having the separate Preamp and Power amp setup. You can just keep plugging in different preamps without having to worry about power ratings and speakers. It's great!
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I had one of the Alembic F2-B preamps for about a year. It was overkill for me and I sold it on to a guy with a Alembic series I. (I was raising cash for the first Dingwall) It was more tailored to a stereo rig. Works great as a pre for the separate pickup send of those old Alembics.

Basically it was two channels, based on the Fender Showman tone circuit. Very simple design, so a non working unit wouldn't be hard to repair. There are a lot of guys who have 20 years or more on these pres.

It was a great sounding unit. Very organic, warm and breathy sounding.

Lots of possibilities with the two channels and the ability to route one thru the other for tons of gain.

The second channel on mine had some slight mods that made for more variety. Otherwise both the channels are identical.

My research turned up lots of info on both bassists and guitartists who use the F2-B. David Gilmour is probably the best known user.

They don't come up that often and seem to go for $400 and up used.

Not much to look at, these things are all about the sound. This one was, I think, from the early eighties.
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The Alembics sound interesting. Clean is good. And soon I'll hopefully have what amounts to several Kw worth of power amp and cabs that can handle it. Like most of us, I'm really into clean, defined bass but without sacrificing the lows. As of right now, I'm doing my best not to invest a huge sum into gear for a bit! :roll:
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I have had an Alembic F1x for over a year and finally gigged with it last week and the Alembic F1x and a QSC 2450 will make up my new power side. Combustion sounded better than ever.

I always used my Mesa Boogie m-pulse 600(great head and has tube grit) and I have been using Mesa stuff for so long I didn't know how Clean the bass could sound. The sound/tone was off the hook and strangers were coming up to me and wouldn't leave me alone so I could chill on set breaks. I noticed that the Alembic pre doesn't have to be as loud to cut through the mix clearly.

BTW I was using a 4 ohm 4x10 Glockenlang.... I spelled it right!! Fabulous 4x10 I hope to move up to a Schroedger BMF 412 of maybe the Triad. They are light and I need to have the ability to play outdoors w/o a PA(Late nights at festivals). I don't know if anyone would have any suggestions? I need to be able to play reggae, blue grass, electronica.... Versatility and Low end that will hit your soul. Next Time I gig I'll take a picture.... Could just imagine the above F1x with a Korg Tuner and a QSC.... Wha la! I'll try and post a picture..
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Nice!

I'm still waiting for the release of the Peavey IPR 4500 (I've pre-ordered and paid). They keep moving back the release date and Peavey has told me that they're having component-pipeline problems, meaning that the manufacturers aren't producing enough parts for them to actually build the amps. But the thought of a 2ohm capable, 4500w, stereo power amp at 7lbs is pretty hard to resist. I'll rack it, with a tuner as well and use it for bigger gigs or outdoors as needed.

If you're playing a variety of music with different tonal settings, do look at cabs that are closer to 'flat' than otherwise. I have a Schroeder, and it's most definitely NOT flat sounding, so while its loud and they can be light, it may not fit all musical settings. Mine is often to brutal and mid-forward punchy for places where you're looking for a full, wide tone.
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[quote="BurningSkies":2c8lt4wb]Nice!

I'm still waiting for the release of the Peavey IPR 4500 (I've pre-ordered and paid). They keep moving back the release date and Peavey has told me that they're having component-pipeline problems, meaning that the manufacturers aren't producing enough parts for them to actually build the amps. But the thought of a 2ohm capable, 4500w, stereo power amp at 7lbs is pretty hard to resist. I'll rack it, with a tuner as well and use it for bigger gigs or outdoors as needed.

If you're playing a variety of music with different tonal settings, do look at cabs that are closer to 'flat' than otherwise. I have a Schroeder, and it's most definitely NOT flat sounding, so while its loud and they can be light, it may not fit all musical settings. Mine is often to brutal and mid-forward punchy for places where you're looking for a full, wide tone.[/quote:2c8lt4wb]

Can "flat" and "modern" be equated? Vintage/tube amps are certainly not flat. I'm guessing other characteristically sounding amps are described using words like punchy, deep etc. From what I see at TB, "modern" is often scorned for not having "that vibe". In your opinion, is "modern" a characteristic of a sound or a lack of a characteristic (i.e. flat)?

It's an honest question; I just ask this because you know your amps and I, well, don't :)
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[quote:1c6iqc00]I'm still waiting for the release of the Peavey IPR 4500 (I've pre-ordered and paid). They keep moving back the release date and Peavey has told me that they're having component-pipeline problems, meaning that the manufacturers aren't producing enough parts for them to actually build the amps. But the thought of a 2ohm capable, 4500w, stereo power amp at 7lbs is pretty hard to resist. I'll rack it, with a tuner as well and use it for bigger gigs or outdoors as needed.

If you're playing a variety of music with different tonal settings, do look at cabs that are closer to 'flat' than otherwise. I have a Schroeder, and it's most definitely NOT flat sounding, so while its loud and they can be light, it may not fit all musical settings. Mine is often to brutal and mid-forward punchy for places where you're looking for a full, wide tone.[/quote:1c6iqc00]

I strayed away from the plx2 series of QSC amp because it's so light. I can't have it fail. At this point I don't have the ability to have backups. The RMX series weight is that of a normal amp but it also comes with tales of almost being Superman/amp. In a rack, tuner, power supply, midi synth(in the works), wireless unit(also in the future), and maybe an eventide rack unit or a echoplex looper that shouldn't be that difficult to carry. I would like it to be feather light but today I'll sacrifice for reliability.


What do you mean by flat? I think of big speakers 15's with no horns. I don't particularly want the
Modern/HiFi sound... I like the bass to be felt just as it is heard. Also I can get help from Schroedger. He is the one that I have talked to that was most knowledgeable about cabs, and what I was using currently, yet I do know that he owns a company and wants people to play his stuff.

What do you think of the BMF Triad 10, 12, 15 in it. Has it all, if it's loud and deep then I like the Idea. I have always used 4x10's sometimes with a 15".

People have been telling me about 12" cabs as being responsive like 10" punchy, and can get the low tones like 15".

In a perfect world I'd have pair of bagend 18" and a 2 or 4x10. But I have space concerns and weight concerns.

Money is always an issue cause I am playing music as my main source of income and I've got bills, and invest in the band. When I buy something I usually work with companies that will work directly with musicians. I've been really lucky and have made some awesome connections. On the flip side I have had more gear stolen than a Guitar Center(just feels like that...Karma?). Between Basses, Pedal boards, and amps I have less gear now than ever and we are playing more in front of new audiences witch is great, but I feel like a Dr. Really don't have many solidly booked dates to post and promote but some how we are being asked and offered positive gigs. Tell me where to play and I'm there. This attitude has forced us to cut way back on the amount of local gigs we play(sucks because the bars keep giving us more money to play) can't keep a loyal following if we are playing every couple of days, then we morph into a cover band to keep people into the music and help the bar keep filled and become that cover band at such and such they were good who were they?

I would like to have my amp(I'm good, but I know an Alembic endorsed artist and swears the F2B has a better tone, and stereo bass w/ effects would be so cool IMO.) and Cabinet squared away as soon as possible because I'm basically just waiting for the word or phone call that says be there(some festival or band playing multiple nights w/ campers) next (day in future) and we'll be opening for someone or playing a late night when the music stops and people are looking for more than DJ's.

Last week we got notice to late but were asked to open for Steve Kimock at Further in Northern California. That would have been fine big PA, but other festivals we have to become Jedi's and create our own stage. Phish Festival 8 Indio,CA we Set up and played 2 of the three nights(5 and a half hours straight) lead to new people hearing us play and offers of money to play the third night, and spread across the country promises... if you are in this area i'll help you book a venue and promote the hell out of it.

I'm totally off topic but we are young. As far as our connections and knowledge about the music industry as artists. We will be playiing festivals and shows to gain larger audiences and hopefully new fans(so far it has worked great and been good positive reinforcement that following my heart isn't going to lead to failure). I want to sound like Thunder and be as delicate as snow falling. I'm satisfied with what I have now but just like my musical abilities I know I could get a better sound and I know will have to... if we continue to play for larger and larger groups.

Burning Skies I'm guessing but do you play reggae? If so you probably know what tone I'm thinking I want. Super deep thick lows, clear highs that will be filling and pleasurable(warm and inviting), and must respond to fast combinations of notes and playing from low energy ambience to intense structured grooves and punches with out muddying it up.

Any advice? One problem I'm almost certain to buy a CAB blind, no real great bass shops close. I'm three and a half hours away from were I bought my bass, where I get strings, and try to support when if he's got something I want.

Ok Sorry for the rants and raves..... and Thanks
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You really should take the time to listen.... It's a big decision. My current vote is Phil Jones Bass. (the good expensive ones...) I use the 6 Pak and it's impossible awesome sounding.
www.livesoundaudio.com
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[quote:2ancx5e6]You really should take the time to listen.... It's a big decision. My current vote is Phil Jones Bass. (the good expensive ones...) I use the 6 Pak and it's impossible awesome sounding. [/quote:2ancx5e6]


Damn they look so big and heavy. I know all about the surface area speaker theory. You have 4x10's=40" speaker area 16x5"=80" more surface area more air pushed. But I hear you on listening to a cab, and it is a big decision I will try to search someone out that has one near me.

I just like the Schoedger BMF triad, and I don't know anyone who has even heard one.... Looks good to me. I used to make cabs if I wasn't looking for space saving and light I'd do what Burning Skies did.
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I've been thinking of bi-amping. I would probably add an 18" or the Accugroove 21" speaker to go along with my 8x8". I would send the lows to the 21" and the mids/highs to the 8x8".

Anybody here have experience with bi-amping? How did you like it?
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I just plugged some numbers into my handy construction master calculator.

Remember, the area of a circle is based on the radius and pi: amazingly the speaker surface of the 4 x10 is almost exactly the area of the 5 x 16 at roughly 314 square inches.

Two 15" speaks gives you 353 square inches.

Here's a picture of my TL 606's/ 3015's. The cabs are slightly modified with a larger port to handle the high power drivers.

The Alembic F2-B is long gone, right now I'm using either a MXR M-80 di+ or a Sansamp Para Driver Di or both to hit the front of the GK with some warmth. The MXR has a cool scoop, but a nasty cheap sounding distortion, so I'm leaning more toward the fat tones of the San Amp.

The GK 1001 rb 2 seems to me a cold sounding amp until its turned up to painful.
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[quote:5h9dc9bs]I just plugged some numbers into my handy construction master calculator.

Remember, the area of a circle is based on the radius and pi: amazingly the speaker surface of the 4 x10 is almost exactly the area of the 5 x 16 at roughly 314 square inches.

Two 15" speaks gives you 353 square inches.[/quote:5h9dc9bs]


You know what I did the math and I was surprised that the 4x10 and the 16x5 cabs have the same amount of surface area.

The thing is 1 15" is about the size of a 4x10" cab. so to compare two 15's wouldn't be equivalents due to # of cabs or speaker box size.

Anyway's that is a theory, I used to deal with custom stereos and larger companies debate that way of thinking. You are absolutely right speaker diameter and number of speakers isn't really the surface area. I feel like such a slacker, I tutored high level math, physics, and chemistry in college. Almost majored in math...Studied Chemistry. LOL

Here is a horrible picture of my rig ipone.. An eye opening experience because it's a new amp setup. I've had the Alembic for over 2 years with out ever trying it and the Glockenklang was powered by a Mesa Boogie M-pulse 600, I've has Mesa heads for the last 8+ years. The clarity and depth of my Combustions tone has changed so much. If I get carried away you can here the stings click on the pickups. Never had clarity like that before. Need to get a rack but need to sell some stuff first and figure how big it needs to be. Also with this power amp setup I could get a cabinet that could handle more power!!! :twisted:
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[quote="RichC123":217607rj]I've been thinking of bi-amping. I would probably add an 18" or the Accugroove 21" speaker to go along with my 8x8". I would send the lows to the 21" and the mids/highs to the 8x8".

Anybody here have experience with bi-amping? How did you like it?[/quote:217607rj]

I don't have any personal experience but Bagend is supposed to be the bomb. They have a rack mount signal processor/crossover that will hit 8hz(well below audible) with an their 18". The people that I know that use it say it's the cleanest thickest sound possible, and would never try any thing else. Kinda like the way most feel about there Dingwalls.

http://www.bagend.com/bagend/deepred.htm
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-By 'flat' I mean no exaggerated tonal profile to the cab. As close to neutral across the board. It doesn't have to mean 'wide' (aka frequency response range), but I don't want a cab that's got peaks or attenuation that I'll have to fight. I had (still have, actually) one of Jorg's original 1212's. Its a great cab on stage because you can hear it clearly anywhere on stage. But it has an exaggerated mid range and rolls off on the lows pretty severely. I haven't had a chance to play his newest range of cabs, and I believe they're a lot more 'even' but I've also heard they retain that characteristic mid-forward tone.

-'Modern' is a loaded term. I think of it as a cab with a wide frequency response range. Something that can effectively hit down in the 40hz range but also can give you upper treble sheen. It can also mean that you get this with low-mid bump. I would think of old school or traditional cabs as one without a lot of upper range content, but also as not going too deep. Meat-and-potatoes sound that doesn't hit much below about 60hz solidly but also isn't giving you the upper reaches of the tweeter. I don't think you can effectively consider a speaker's size to be any indication of 'fast/slow' or high/low. There are so many factors involved in the mechanics of the speaker that are more important that the size of the cone. My Bergantino HT115 was closer in tone to what people think of as 10's than a 15. I used it as a single cab solution in many small gig situations and it could certainly provide punch and some brightness if you wanted it.

-I do play reggae about 95+ percent of the time. So not only did I want 'flat' but I also wanted something that had good low end frequency extension. That's one area where most mainstream cabinet manufacturers will 'stretch the truth'. Most of those cabs that tell you they go down below 40hz...may do so, but are heavily rolled off by the time you get there. I've chosen to go with a cab(s) that reach lower than most (demonstrably by both actual scientific measurment) as well as by what I can hear. I had to actually roll back my lows when I first started playing with them. I also have a mid-range speaker rather than a tweeter. I don't get the shrill upper range I don't really like, but get solid even coverage that I would consider in the treble range. It's even and smooth, not clicky and harsh. Because its crossed over effectively, there's no 'hole' between the speakers' responses. Actually, my lower box is low passed differently from the top box, and it's also tuned differently, so it covers more sonic ground below the other 15.

In the end, I like flat because what you feed it is what it outputs. I'm not a fan of 'playing my bass & amp flat'. With my Schroeder and other cabs I had to dump a ton of low into the cabs from my amp's EQ to get what I wanted. I also had to roll off more of the highs than I do now, because the highs I have are smoother and more natural. So, what I have is a modern interpretation of reggae sound. Its lower and clearer and cleaner and without mud. I can play quickly and with definition, sort of like having a nice PA for just the bass. I also can play bright and punchy or anywhere in between if I want, depending upon the gig or setting. Sheldon makes these great instruments that cover a lot of ground and can do a lot of styles. Having his basses made me rethink my amp needs for that reason.

What to look for in a cab? Its a really a personal thing. Its hard in a place where you can't try out a lot of cabs. I live in one of those places too, and because of that I've had to very carefully research what people are saying about a particular model or piece.
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Nice lookin' rig! I used to have a Mesa, but it was too big on 'grit and grind' and I always was tweaking it to get closer to clean.

The problem with the 4x10 and 1x15 boxes being similar in size with the speaker area being larger for the 4x10 is that it is very likely that the company that made (both) boxes is considering form and look over the engineering aspect of the cabinet. The 4x10 probably should have more internal volume for optimal tonal range and output...then again, the 15 might benefit from more volume too! But all in all, the 15 is probably closer to being in the box it should be.

[quote="BasicSituation":az7j4k1c][quote:az7j4k1c]I just plugged some numbers into my handy construction master calculator.

Remember, the area of a circle is based on the radius and pi: amazingly the speaker surface of the 4 x10 is almost exactly the area of the 5 x 16 at roughly 314 square inches.

Two 15" speaks gives you 353 square inches.[/quote:az7j4k1c]


You know what I did the math and I was surprised that the 4x10 and the 16x5 cabs have the same amount of surface area.

The thing is 1 15" is about the size of a 4x10" cab. so to compare two 15's wouldn't be equivalents due to # of cabs or speaker box size.

Anyway's that is a theory, I used to deal with custom stereos and larger companies debate that way of thinking. You are absolutely right speaker diameter and number of speakers isn't really the surface area. I feel like such a slacker, I tutored high level math, physics, and chemistry in college. Almost majored in math...Studied Chemistry. LOL

Here is a horrible picture of my rig ipone.. An eye opening experience because it's a new amp setup. I've had the Alembic for over 2 years with out ever trying it and the Glockenklang was powered by a Mesa Boogie M-pulse 600, I've has Mesa heads for the last 8+ years. The clarity and depth of my Combustions tone has changed so much. If I get carried away you can here the stings click on the pickups. Never had clarity like that before. Need to get a rack but need to sell some stuff first and figure how big it needs to be. Also with this power amp setup I could get a cabinet that could handle more power!!! :twisted:[/quote:az7j4k1c]
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Hey there, Burning Skies,

Did you use a 3015 LF in the fEarful sub? How do you like it?

I'm getting ready to build an expanded TL 606, bumped up to about 5 cubic feet to handle the 3015 LF.

Like you noted, a lot of cab builders are stretching the truth when they talk about 40 htz in a small box, but hey, its really about the cool tolex and grill, nobody hears the low anyway. At least they won't when the cab is undersized.

I do want my cabs to match and stack, so the plan view will be the same, but the cab will get taller to provide the additional internal volume.

Did you get the low end you were looking for with the fEarful sub?

Did you put any type of crossover in the sub?

Thanks
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The first fEarful (a 15/6, with 3015LF+6ND410) was an eye opener for me. It definitely has more low end extension than any of the cabs I've played over the years. I had to re-learn my EQ since it has more sensitivity down low. My lows are still boosted a bit, but not nearly as extreme as it used to be. It was also an eye opener as to how much more content there in the range that the 6" covers which you don't notice is missing until you've played a cab that presents it.

Anyway, the sub does have a 3015LF. The cab is actually deeper in dimension than the 15/6, giving more internal volume and the porting is also different, though from the front they have the same face, with the sub looking smaller. It doesn't have a full crossover, since it only has one speaker, but it does have a low pass in it with a 12db slope...and it's different than the low-pass section of the 15/6 crossover, meaning that the 15-sub is a different cab than the 15/6 in a few ways. Its a true 'sub' and not just reinforcing the same territory as the 15/6's 3015LF.

I've only been using it for just over a month so far, and I've used the 15/6 for almost a year, so I'm still forming an end opinion, but so far, I think it sounds great. The two together are A LOT of cab. I'm a believe that the 3015LF is possibly the best 15 on the market (as long as you're crossing it over at a good point). The 15/6 gave me the lows that I really wanted...and the sub gave me more than I knew that I could ask for.

I would think that the LF would do great in a 606 style box, especially if you increase the internal volume and watch the porting.

Commercial cab companies have a lot to contend with when it comes to what people expect to see in a speaker box, size, shape, speaker layout, etc. People still shop with their eyes. I have people come up to me at shows and make comments about my weird 'big' 15 cabinet and always ask me if it's 'home made'. But I also have at least a couple local players who have cursed me because "I can't get the sound of that cab out of my head, and now I hate my sound and can't sleep at night".

[quote="singlemalt":282b2qcx]Hey there, Burning Skies,

Did you use a 3015 LF in the fEarful sub? How do you like it?

I'm getting ready to build an expanded TL 606, bumped up to about 5 cubic feet to handle the 3015 LF.

Like you noted, a lot of cab builders are stretching the truth when they talk about 40 htz in a small box, but hey, its really about the cool tolex and grill, nobody hears the low anyway. At least they won't when the cab is undersized.

I do want my cabs to match and stack, so the plan view will be the same, but the cab will get taller to provide the additional internal volume.

Did you get the low end you were looking for with the fEarful sub?

Did you put any type of crossover in the sub?

Thanks[/quote:282b2qcx] :wink:
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  1. more than a month ago
  2. Basses
  3. # 40


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