1. Sheldon Dingwall
  2. Basses
  3. Friday, 11 January 2008
  4.  Subscribe via email
This is the last project we've been working on for NAMM. It's a little brother to the Afterburner. There are a few details to be worked out and financing to be sourced but the goal is to put this into production at a really attractive street price.
Attachments (2)
Comment
There are no comments made yet.
Nic DB Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Registered
0
Votes
Undo
Hi Sheldon

There are some really good (and diverse) points of view being disseminated here, one observation is that they are all from existing DW owners. Have you been asking this question to the staff in stores that are DW dealers to get a feel for what the non DW owners are looking for from a price point/feature/USP perspective, or even a cache perspective?

I also think Frank M made a good point that if you cant get a product worthy of your name to fit your price point then it might be better to skip it. Then I guess its up to us DW owners to get cracking and drum up some more business for you so you can hire and train more staff to increase output without sacrificing quality!

N :)
Comment
There are no comments made yet.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. Basses
  3. # 181
BuffaloBob Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Registered
0
Votes
Undo
[quote="FrankM":28i15av4]
While I'd love to have 2 to play out at biker bars, its gotta have a Dingwall soul else it ain't worth playin[/quote:28i15av4]

Well said. Give this man a Harrumph! :wink:
Comment
There are no comments made yet.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. Basses
  3. # 182
FrankM Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Registered
0
Votes
Undo
My opinion on this is the new bass is it should look slightly different than your AB basses, to at least set it apart from your other product line, but give it a familiar Dingwall-esque look- so its readily recognizable as a Dingwall

However I think the bass needs to come under the $1000.00 mark, and lower is going to be better (899). If your trying to reach out to players -who've never tried a FF bass or on-the-fence folks, you have to make a compelling argument, and its my opinion that 1200.00 is not what will convince folks to try it.
Finally, I'd say that your in a bit of a dilemma. on one hand people see these fretboards and pass immediately, so a 22 fret fretboard really removes alot of the busy-ness, but 24 fret basses tend to be seen as higher end. Id say do 22, just to broaden the appeal of your basses.
Of course if you don't think you can come to market w/ a sub 1000.00 bass that meets your standards and tone- then skip it.

While I'd love to have 2 to play out at biker bars, its gotta have a Dingwall soul else it ain't worth playin
Comment
There are no comments made yet.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. Basses
  3. # 183
Dragonlord Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Registered
0
Votes
Undo
BurningSkies is right on the money when he says that this needs to be a unique model with different aesthetics than the current line so that it doesn't feel like a cheap alternative. Hell, I even stay away from ABIIs because I feel it's a compromise when I already have a Prima (actually, even before I bought it I felt a bit like the ABs were the "budget" Dingwalls, something unacceptable at this price range). Different looks will make the model much more attractive, even to current dingwall owners.

Pricewise, I really think you should try to keep it below $1000. That extra digit is a huge psychological barrier IMO. If I were to go to the $1200 area, it should be REALLY different (looks or specs-wise) to make me not prefer a used afterburner.

Name it like you would name a bass you're proud of. No-one wants to shell out a grand or more to get a cut-down, "limited" version of what you think a bass should be like.

IIRC, you had initially announced bart pickups... I thought "doh, if I ever get one of these this will be the first thing to go". First of all, they should be the exact size of FD-3s to allow replacement. Other than that, dunno, can't you have someone in China or someplace make you pickups with your instructions? I think chinese FD-3s or something would be ideal.

I'd go with 24 frets. The difference in the angle between the 22nd and the 24th frets is minimal, and I think there are many bassists who are used to 24 frets and just want them to be there, even if they won't use them. For example, I rejected a 21-fret Dingwall because of that - as stupid as it may seem as I don't play that high often. If it was a $300 bass I wouldn't sweat it, but when I'm giving my earnings to buy the ONE bass for me then I want it to have it all, including 24 frets. And at $1000, you're mostly looking at people who are searching for their holy grail bass - you may be used to people shelling out $4000-$5000 for their dream bass, but this is a small minority; most people see $1000 as the biggest amount they are willing to give for a bass - I know, I've been there when I bought my warwick a few years ago. Warwick through their ads etc made me feel like I was getting a bass limousine, and that's the feeling you have to communicate to potential buyers.
Comment
There are no comments made yet.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. Basses
  3. # 184
Mark L Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Registered
0
Votes
Undo
[quote="Funkshwey":2845bgya]I have some suggestions for a name.

Dingwall Galaxy

Dingwall Rocket[/quote:2845bgya]

Uhhh, already suggested: "[i:2845bgya]How about "Rocket" as the name? You should hold a contest to name this new model and give one of these to the winner"

Mark [/i:2845bgya]


Mark
Comment
There are no comments made yet.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. Basses
  3. # 185
Smallmouth_Bass Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Registered
0
Votes
Undo
1. [b:1vhyu6fz]The Name[/b:1vhyu6fz]
I agree that changing the name from an Afterburner (GL) is probably a good idea. It's a new model and needs a new name to go with it.

2. [b:1vhyu6fz]Cost[/b:1vhyu6fz]
It would be great if you could keep it under $1000, but I do think that up to $1200 is acceptable depending on the features.

3. [b:1vhyu6fz]Pickups[/b:1vhyu6fz]
Go with what sounds best. However, once you're getting into the $1000 range, single coil hum is not an option (IMO). I like the idea of having standard sized routes for pickup upgrades. FD-3s, SuperFatties or even standard PJs.

4. [b:1vhyu6fz]Frets[/b:1vhyu6fz]
Personally, 22 or 24 doesn't really make a difference to me; I don't go there. But, if someone is going to take the plunge on a fanned fret bass, I doubt that having it look less intimidating by having fewer frets will make a difference at all. The whole concept of fanned frets makes sense and I think that anyone who is interested in the bass is going to want it mainly for that, so it will be a non-issue. And plus, those who will likely buy one will want to look different and show it off!

As for room to slap; I don't have a problem on the Afterburners the way they are however I don't slap much. Some might prefer to have more room, but it can be done.

5. [b:1vhyu6fz]Body Shape & Finish[/b:1vhyu6fz]
I think I'd try and make the body shape noticeably different from the Afterburners. The Afterburners have gone from "entry" level models to mid to higher end models and having a model below it with the same look will cheapen ABs a bit.

If you can keep a nice flame top, that would be nice. For solid colours I'd probably go with some of the standards like black, white and 3-tone sunburst. Maybe even candy apple red and a lake placidy blue of some sort.

One thing you might want to consider to keep this model looking distinctive from your other models is to add a pickguard. If you could manage to get a fairly traditional shape and not have it interfere with the neck pocket/butt end of the neck, it might look pretty cool.

6. [b:1vhyu6fz]Strings[/b:1vhyu6fz]
Keep the 37" to 34" scale (5-string) and don't worry about it too much. These days, strings can be easily ordered online and there [i:1vhyu6fz]are[/i:1vhyu6fz] some other options for strings. Even still, Dingwall strings are not easy to come by in a regular store and have to be ordered anyway...
Comment
There are no comments made yet.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. Basses
  3. # 186
BurningSkies Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Registered
0
Votes
Undo
[quote="guitarded":3ia64lqf]Here's my thoughts on all of this:


[b:3ia64lqf]Finish[/b:3ia64lqf]: The flame top is nice. You could downgrade the quality of the top to cut some costs, but then you might as well use a fake flame top - I've seen some pretty convincing ones. Is paint really any cheaper per unit than a top? Offer maybe 3 metallic colors (a red, a blue, and a black), and offer 2 colors with "fancy" tops, natural and blackburst. As far as how to set the body apart, droop the bottom cutaway like a PA?


Count me in for A Dingwall Whatever, even at $1200, but no more than that or I'll just buy used.


Mark[/quote:3ia64lqf]

I think we're ALL interested in this bass! :D


[color=indigo:3ia64lqf]My thought on the shape thing is that, while it's much less time consuming to use the AB footprint, what this needs to be is a 'new model' rather than a down-scale of a current model. It would be a unique instrument that won't have to live in the shadow of the AB's now legendary reputation. Having a solid finish, or a trans over ash or alder could work with a new aesthetic. Look at the EBMM basses. They've hardly ever gone with a fancy wood top and people love them. Fenders, Laklands, even Sadowsky Metros are almost all solid or basic burst or 'natural' finishes and they work great and sell well. The colors wouldn't have to be the same old same old either...they could have their own personality as well.


I think that maybe there's a need to think more about the target musician for this instrument. We know its aimed at 'entry-pro-level gearheads and players, those who haven't had a chance to play a Dingwall and can't justify the cost of one sight-unseen or even after having played one. But that covers a lot of ground. Its guys who have played in bars for 30 years and kids who have played in high school in basements. Its hobbyists who are gear heads and also pros who want an alternative to short scale, or want a quality back-up for the stage. Metalheads love them because of the downtuning potential...

But...you can't play to all those people. Do you aim to please the majority of the crowd and drive down the middle of the street or do you define your product a bit more clearly?

The string thing will be a problem for some, unless the 'alternative' string choices become more well known to prospective buyers.[/color:3ia64lqf]
Comment
There are no comments made yet.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. Basses
  3. # 187
Mark L Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Registered
0
Votes
Undo
Here's my thoughts on all of this:

[b:3jjfauea]Price[/b:3jjfauea]: BS is right-on with the $900-$1200 price range. Any more and you might as well shop for a used ABI.

[b:3jjfauea]Finish[/b:3jjfauea]: The flame top is nice. You could downgrade the quality of the top to cut some costs, but then you might as well use a fake flame top - I've seen some pretty convincing ones. Is paint really any cheaper per unit than a top? Offer maybe 3 metallic colors (a red, a blue, and a black), and offer 2 colors with "fancy" tops, natural and blackburst. As far as how to set the body apart, droop the bottom cutaway like a PA?

[b:3jjfauea]Pickups[/b:3jjfauea]: You could put one humbucker in the sweet spot. I had a couple of Cort Curbow Petites with a single Bart, a mid-cut switch, and a Bart MK three band eq, and it was all you needed. They were very impressive little basses. Cort did a great job with them, and managed to bring the 6 string in at way less than $900. I've nearly decided to get another, shave the neck, and have it around just for fun :) .

How about a PJ set up of some kind? Everybody makes at least one bass with this arrangement. Seems like there are a dozens of soap bars to choose from to find a decent one. Whatever the layout, a standard sized rout so that we can hotrod the bass is a must.


[b:3jjfauea]Frets[/b:3jjfauea]: 24. IME, a 24 fret Dingwall slaps just fine, thank you, and I wasn't frightened by the look at all! :D If you don't need the last 2 frets then don't use them, but I try to go way up there at least once on every solo :wink:


Count me in for A Dingwall Whatever, even at $1200, but no more than that or I'll just buy used.


Mark
Comment
There are no comments made yet.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. Basses
  3. # 188
Funkshwey Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Registered
0
Votes
Undo
I have some suggestions for a name.

Dingwall Galaxy

Dingwall Rocket
Comment
There are no comments made yet.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. Basses
  3. # 189
Funkshwey Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Registered
0
Votes
Undo
[quote="FrankM":7cov5dzl]let me ask....
if you keep the same scale length, what will the average players think about having to use speciality strings, esp strings you cant walk into guitar center and get[/quote:7cov5dzl]

That's one of the reasons we're trying to get D'Addario on board.
Comment
There are no comments made yet.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. Basses
  3. # 190
FrankM Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Registered
0
Votes
Undo
let me ask....
if you keep the same scale length, what will the average players think about having to use speciality strings, esp strings you cant walk into guitar center and get
Comment
There are no comments made yet.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. Basses
  3. # 191
BurningSkies Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Registered
0
Votes
Undo
[quote="Sheldon Dingwall"]There have been some changes as this project evolves.

1. The name GL is out. We're not 100% settled on the new name yet, but will be soon.
[color=indigo]
This is a good idea. I don
Comment
There are no comments made yet.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. Basses
  3. # 192
Dingbat Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Registered
0
Votes
Undo
If the string spacing remains the same, I don't think cutting back to 22 frets will be any incentive for slappers to buy it.

Definitely keep the AB scale length.
Comment
There are no comments made yet.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. Basses
  3. # 193
Funkshwey Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Registered
0
Votes
Undo
A few preliminary suggestions Sheldon:

Keep the same aspects as the Z's, AB's and budget model consistent ie scale length, STRING SPACING, MAKE THE SC'S HAVE THE SAME SIZE HOUSING as FD3's or the SJ/SJ Phatties SO PEOPLE CAN UPGRADE pu's later.

$1200 is around USA Fender and G&L prices. Your potential customers will consider USA to Offshore in their descision.

22 frets should be fine. People who think 22 frets = lesser quality are uneducated. A lot of them think 24 frets = a longer scale, which we know is not true.

String spacing should be 18mm so customers can upgrade to an AB bridge if they want (if you will allow that).

Being able to upgrade PU's w/out rerouting the cavities is going to be VERY IMPORTANT.

That's all I can think of for now Sheldon.
Comment
There are no comments made yet.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. Basses
  3. # 194
funkaholic Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Registered
0
Votes
Undo
I am new to the forum as a member although I have been following it regularly, this is going to be my first post. :wink:
I personally prefer the feel of 22 frets and the open sound of single coils. Especially if stacked-coil is an option, that will take care of people who don't want to deal with 60-cycle-hum and as far as I know, being the first single-coil option for Dingwall, it may intrigue some single-coil lovers :lol:
Comment
There are no comments made yet.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. Basses
  3. # 195
Nic DB Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Registered
0
Votes
Undo
Hi Sheldon

$1200 is getting somewhat close to AB1 territory (street circa $1900 for a 4 string), to save costs and re-tooling is there anyway you could work backwards from the current AB1 to achieve the cost savings required to make the price point without serious retooling etc? The 22-24 fret question is so subjective that it is almost a non starter, the bottom line is that some folks will be adamant 22 fret players, some will be 24 fret players and some wont really mind either way, this is most likely a case of not being able to please all the people all the time!

I quite liked the GL prototype you showed me although some of the hardware had a cheap look about it (that might just have been the chrome finish), the other unit you showed me (the black one) that came from the supplier really didn't reflect the standard of instrument that we have all come to associate with your fine work.

Ideas?, maybe an AB1 with a one piece body outsourced, coming in as few colours as possible, maybe with a 22 fret neck and only 1 pickup and dialled in to a particular Dingwall tone that would provide good general utility but not the specialized range of tones we are starting to demand (respectfully!).
I think my jazz tutor has a musicman that seems to be a bit like what I have described, anyhow there is my 10cents worth

Regards

Nic
Comment
There are no comments made yet.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. Basses
  3. # 196
Dingbat Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Registered
0
Votes
Undo
I have no problem with fanned frets and I like 24 frets. If part of the concept is to make the bass "less cluttered", a 22 fret neck is good, too, but I would also like to see wider string spacing, especially down near the nut. I don't think that would add to the productions cost. (As if I knew what I knew what I was talking about.)

I also prefer a slightly arched fret board to flat ones. I guess what I've been longing for is a thin (not narrow) Fender style neck but with fanned frets. Would that increase the production cost?

Some people like the sound of single coil pick-ups but I would go straight for the stacked single option.

I play a few basses with big square heels and they've never bothered me. I probably wouldn't even notice more heel in one of your designs.
Comment
There are no comments made yet.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. Basses
  3. # 197
chaos_theory Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Registered
0
Votes
Undo
I think that even if the bass selling for 1200 dollars in stores that would be a fair price.
Comment
There are no comments made yet.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. Basses
  3. # 198
Sheldon Dingwall Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Admin
0
Votes
Undo
There have been some changes as this project evolves.

1. The name GL is out. We're not 100% settled on the new name yet, but will be soon.

2. Cost, the deeper we look into all the costs involved, the less likely it will be that we can pull this off for a street of $800. The goal is to keep the price as low as possible, but balance that with an acceptable-to-us level of quality and performance. It has to perform to our standards period.

I'd appreciate some feedback as to target pricing. For this to fly we need to appeal to a wider range of players. Ones that are maybe buying their first quality bass, ones that are fanned-fret curious but don't want to spend a great deal on something they're not sure about, ones that need a working instrument to gig with that they can afford to take to less than desirable gigs.

3. Pickups - the off-shore pickups were nice and decent. I don't think they shared enough of the same tone signature that we've developed over the last 8 years that we've been developing our own pickups. So, the plan is to build the pickups ourselves. It will be costly to tool, but if we go with a single-coil design we should be able to make it work.

We've tested some single-coil prototypes and the tone is really good. The downside is the single-coil noise when either of the pickups are soloed. Future up-grades could involve a stacked single if their was substantial interest.

I'd appreciate some feedback on the pickup choice.

4. I'm considering going with 22 instead of 24. The reason being that our number one complaint is the upper frets. If we reduce the number of upper frets, that area becomes less cluttered looking when viewed from the players perspective. The fan also looks slightly less radical from all view points, the neck looks less long etc. Slap tone gets a little more beefy as you're working the strings a little further from the bridge.

The downside is that some people prefer 24 frets and possibly view 24 frets as being higher quality. A 22 fret body requires more heel protrusion meaning the heel intrudes into the playing area an extra two frets worth. (Yes we are going to have a heel on this model).

I'd like to hear your comments on 22/24 frets. We also have to envision what the non, but potential Dingwall players are going to prefer.

Thanks all.

Sheldon
Comment
There are no comments made yet.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. Basses
  3. # 199
Jazzman Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Registered
0
Votes
Undo
I want One !!!!!!!!!!!!! :twisted: :twisted:
Comment
There are no comments made yet.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. Basses
  3. # 200


There are no replies made for this post yet.
However, you are not allowed to reply to this post.