1. Sheldon Dingwall
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  3. Friday, 11 January 2008
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This is the last project we've been working on for NAMM. It's a little brother to the Afterburner. There are a few details to be worked out and financing to be sourced but the goal is to put this into production at a really attractive street price.
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FrankM Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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yes Fullie--
its an obvious
but how do you convince a players whose never touched one of these basses to NOT be scared??
I know i took the plunge sight unseen, but you've got alot of players who are entrenched in the parallel fretboards, and I'd handed my Dingwalls over to a number of players (including my fanned fretless), and all have said the same thing, its not so scarey once your touching the bass.
So maybe, just maybe having more of these basses out there for humans to touch will bypass they fear.

maybe sheldon needs a media campaign w/ a supermodel holding/playing his basses
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fullrangebass Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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Unless you get people to touch them and have them played side by side with their favorite basses, most people are scared to even think of acquiring one. Once the get to play them and listen (in comparison with ...) they start to understand
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FrankM Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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Dragonlord--
the thread is already heading the way everyone here is expecting.
the fanned frets are "scarey", but I'm not sure how you get past it
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Dragonlord Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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[quote="Funkshwey":3erxx10v]We need to find out what potential buyers want in a budget DW that have never played one or feel they can't afford the current models.[/quote:3erxx10v]
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=430233
Hope it becomes an interesting and useful conversation.
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Funkshwey Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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A couple of other things, not sure if they've been mentioned.

Are there any plans to try to hide the maple neck block heel showing on the front like on the ABI's?

It looks like your design has this already but definitely try to have the PU's follow the fanning so PU placement doesn't "look" random. I've checked the harmonics directly above the FD3 rails and the placement is dead on on my ABII5's. But, following the fanning would give less of an excuse not to purchase.

I think if you block off some of the upper frets straight, even if it's the low strings, potential buyers might feel like they're being short changed. I'd still like to see a CAD though.

We need to find out what potential buyers want in a budget DW that have never played one or feel they can't afford the current models.
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Sheldon Dingwall Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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Thanks for the input guys. Some questions have been posed so I'll do my best to answer them in one shot.

[i:2wx3vu4s]I also prefer a slightly arched fret board to flat ones. I guess what I've been longing for is a thin (not narrow) Fender style neck but with fanned frets. Would that increase the production cost? [/i:2wx3vu4s]

We'll be sticking with the AB formula for dimensions. Or at least as close as we can.

[i:2wx3vu4s]Ideas?, maybe an AB1 with a one piece body outsourced, coming in as few colours as possible, maybe with a 22 fret neck and only 1 pickup and dialled in to a particular Dingwall tone that would provide good general utility but not the specialized range of tones we are starting to demand (respectfully!). [/i:2wx3vu4s]

We'll likely do the single pickup down the road. I'd like to have a custom parallelogram shell made for it though so that will happen when I can afford it.

[i:2wx3vu4s]Keep the same aspects as the Z's, AB's and budget model consistent ie scale length, STRING SPACING, MAKE THE SC'S HAVE THE SAME SIZE HOUSING as FD3's or the SJ/SJ Phatties SO PEOPLE CAN UPGRADE pu's later. [/i:2wx3vu4s]

That was the original idea. We ran into a problem with the available shells. We couldn't get a size that fit all of our coils. I might be able to make it work with EMG size shells. They're a little on the large and blocky looking side. I'll draw it up.

[i:2wx3vu4s]The flame top is nice. You could downgrade the quality of the top to cut some costs, but then you might as well use a fake flame top - I've seen some pretty convincing ones. Is paint really any cheaper per unit than a top? Offer maybe 3 metallic colors (a red, a blue, and a black), and offer 2 colors with "fancy" tops, natural and blackburst. As far as how to set the body apart, droop the bottom cutaway like a PA? [/i:2wx3vu4s]

We'll likely offer a choice of both top and solid finish. We can have a pretty extensive choice of colors at the moment. I'm currently drawn toward dark metallics. Midnight blue, midnight purple, midnight red, etc. I'd love it if we could do some wackier colors like the pearl Granny Smith and orange colors too.
[i:2wx3vu4s]
The string thing will be a problem for some, unless the 'alternative' string choices become more well known to prospective buyers.[/i:2wx3vu4s]

How about including a card with the alternate string choices listed?

[i:2wx3vu4s]Is it me or is the body shape a little slimmer in the waist? I also see 4 knobs, what are you thinking now for electrics? [/i:2wx3vu4s]

To be honest, I can't really remember if I tightened up the waist or not. I did re-work the curves to make them smoother though. The electronics will be Vol, Vol, Bass, Treble.

[i:2wx3vu4s]A while back you said that Hipshot treats your AB bridges as custom pricing. What if you committed to the same bridge as the AB's and just purchased way more to get a volume price break. It would be less labor intensive to install too.[/i:2wx3vu4s]

You've got a point on the labor to install an AB bridge VS the individuals. The economies of scale still make the individuals a less expensive alternative.

[i:2wx3vu4s]Seeing as how the lower strings are very rarely used way up on the neck (e.g. low B at the 24th fret), what about making the butt end of the fretboard "straight" (like a regular parallel fret bass) and just have a partial fret at the bottom? So you'd probably only be cutting, or partially cutting off two frets really. This would also give a little more room to slap and decrease the fanned look.[/i:2wx3vu4s]

I'll have to draw that up to make sure the blunt angle of the fingerboard doesn't clash with the angles of the frets and pickups.

[i:2wx3vu4s]A large control Cavity would allow for mods without butchering the body [/i:2wx3vu4s]

That's a good point. I'll see what can fit.
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Smallmouth_Bass Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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[quote="nastyn8c":1zgvd6gj]

The fanned look is the big thing aesthetically with any Dingwall. The way I see it, a "cheap" Dingwall would be a good way to get the name out there. People need to see the fan to really remember the bass. I'm just throwing my opinion out there.[/quote:1zgvd6gj]

I agree. However, if part of the reason is to not make it look as scary and decrease the appearance and severity of fanning, this might be a good option. It sounds like part of the reason a 22-fret is being considered is for that.

Once you get the players on them, it won't really matter.
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nastyn8c Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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[quote="Smallmouth_Bass":1v70htkm]Seeing as how the lower strings are very rarely used way up on the neck (e.g. low B at the 24th fret), what about making the butt end of the fretboard "straight" (like a regular parallel fret bass) and just have a partial fret at the bottom? So you'd probably only be cutting, or partially cutting off two frets really. This would also give a little more room to slap and [b:1v70htkm]decrease the fanned look[/b:1v70htkm].[/quote:1v70htkm]

The fanned look is the big thing aesthetically with any Dingwall. The way I see it, a "cheap" Dingwall would be a good way to get the name out there. People need to see the fan to really remember the bass. I'm just throwing my opinion out there.
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Dragonlord Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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[quote="Smallmouth_Bass":2soxiemx]Seeing as how the lower strings are very rarely used way up on the neck (e.g. low B at the 24th fret), what about making the butt end of the fretboard "straight" (like a regular parallel fret bass) and just have a partial fret at the bottom? So you'd probably only be cutting, or partially cutting off two frets really. This would also give a little more room to slap and decrease the fanned look.[/quote:2soxiemx]
Great idea IMO, best of both worlds
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stickman Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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Great points from everyone. Here's my two cents:

~Both body designs look great... a little more subtle than most DW bodies, and most importantly it's a unique new shape for the DW line that still has a signature Sheldon look to it. I'm really glad you did not make the lower horn look like a PA as that would have broken my heart. It may just be me, but I think your lowest and highest-end designs should look very different from each other.

~I'm not bothered by the 24-fret neck, but whatever the general public wants will work... that said, I think 24 isn't hurting the bass at all.

~Stacked soapbar PU's with a coil split and ease for upgrades a must.

~Solid colors really may make this much more affordable from a production standpoint... Black, Lake Placid Blue metallic, what else? Maybe a metallic orange or subtle red.

~Price point: as low as you can get it without ruining your rep, Sheldon. Numbers will dictate, quality will dictate more. Try for an even $1000 ($999 for the sales-oriented) street price.

~Scrap the concept if it isn't worthy of the DW moniker FOR REAL.

Can't wait for my Prima Artist... I'm just pining away for another year at least. Hope I don't wither into nothing... :shock:

Much love, folks.
Stick.
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[quote="fullrangebass":2ukojbb0]- A large control Cavity would allow for mods without butchering the body[/quote:2ukojbb0]

Would make it a lighter body as well (a few ounces anyway).
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fullrangebass Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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My thoughts so far:

- 22 fret is the way to go. Looks unclattered, while reserving the 24fr for the higher models (AB's, Z's and Primas)

- Passive soapbars (in a popular size) that will allow for eventual upgrade of the pickups

- Not sure about the splitting of the coils or (if it takes off in a strong way) a J coil inside the soapbar housing for the J lovers

- A flame top (if financially viable for the target price) would be a strong point

- A large control Cavity would allow for mods without butchering the body

- Name(s): Eco, Ahead, Iris (spectrum) or Olympus (it is a divine Dingwall after all)
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Brim Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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here are some of my thoughts:

- 22 frets is a good idea....so the AB's and higher models come across as an upgrade. "But I want 24 frets on my GL!" Sorry, it's only available in the Afterburner I', II's, or Z and Primas. Remember, this is an affordable entry to Dingwall.

- Definitely provide an attractive top (flame maple is nice). It will resound the rest of the Dingwall line as precisely crafted works of art. Some of the more recent Zs and PA's are just spectacular in terms of woods and craft. Amazing. I think the entry model should speak in some degree to this fine effort to detail.

- Love the input jack - it does look sexy.

- Name suggestions (abbreviations in parentheses): Dingwall Spark (SP), Dingwall Element (EL), Dingwall Muse (M), Dingwall Burner (B) [signifying that the "After"Burner model are higher up in the hierarchy], Dingwall Alpha (A), Dingwall Genesis (G), Dingwall Bolt (B), Dingwall Ascent (AS), - I'll think of more later.

Just my humble opinion. Honestly, I think this is a great idea to produce an more affordable Dingwall. I would never have been able to afford my AB-II without the awesome deal I got from my friend, but the idea of a Dingwall that's $900 - $1200 street price is incredible.
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Smallmouth_Bass Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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Seeing as how the lower strings are very rarely used way up on the neck (e.g. low B at the 24th fret), what about making the butt end of the fretboard "straight" (like a regular parallel fret bass) and just have a partial fret at the bottom? So you'd probably only be cutting, or partially cutting off two frets really. This would also give a little more room to slap and decrease the fanned look.
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FrankM Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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I like the body style, definately Dingwall, but not totally Afterburner. Also it does take your eyes away from the fanning down low.

I still think a 22 fret fretboard makes the fanning look less pronunced, and look less busy down low. The 24 just looks crowded

Why not consider the 2 choices as a Jazz style pickup or a "musicman (Z2)


Honestly thou Sheldon-- your going to have to ask a NON-biased crowd for what the average Joe wants to play. I'm not sure w/ the #s of Dimgwalls in this group that our answers will be -what the ave guyy wants.
Also clearly you've thought this through, as the Idea is appealing, but realistically can you come in w/ a sub 1000.00 Dingwall that you don't mind carrying your name
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[quote="Sheldon Dingwall":6upvpu7k]Thanks for the input guys. Some really great points brought up.

Here's where I'm at body style-wise.[/quote:6upvpu7k]

At first glance...

I like the body style. It's got the identifiable back end styling that all Dingwalls have, but it doesn't have the unified leading curve of the horns that the AB series has. To me it looks like the body has more offset waist than the AB series (a la Jazz bass style, although that may be more of an illusion due to the horn shape), and the neck doesn't feature the elongated heel meeting with the front pickup. The curve of the neck end is closer to a traditional bass and de-emphasizes the sweep of the frets. I think this shape is a little less 'extreme' than the AB and may be a good place to catch some of the more traditional crowd.
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Funkshwey Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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They both look great.

A while back you said that Hipshot treats your AB bridges as custom pricing. What if you committed to the same bridge as the AB's and just purchased way more to get a volume price break. It would be less labor intensive to install too.
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Nic DB Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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Is it me or is the body shape a little slimmer in the waist? I also see 4 knobs, what are you thinking now for electrics?

N
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Sheldon Dingwall Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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Thanks for the input guys. Some really great points brought up.

Here's where I'm at body style-wise.
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groovemachine Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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Here are some more suggestions for a name:

Dingwall ADVANTAGE (everybody want`s to have an advantage)

Dingwall XPLORER (gives more people the chance to explore the Dingwall-world) :wink: my favourite

English is not my native language and for me these names sound good. Please tell me if I`m wrong.... :D


H.P.
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