Saturday, 04 June 2011
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Alright kids, it's time to talk about shrinkage. Seinfeld references aside, I am wondering if any of you Dingwall owners out there have experienced shrinking of the woods on any laminates on your basses. I have seen a few examples of this now. I recently purchased an SJ 4 that has palpable ridges along the entire length of the body front and back. The center core on the neck has shrunk and left ridges along the length of the neck and the colour matched headstock looks like corduroy when the light caches it. I have a Z2 with the same problem on the neck. I had an ABII with this issue along the neck stringers and a friend of mine who owns a music store got in a brand new Combustion with ridges along the body laminates. Given the number of Dingwalls I have seen/own, the percentage of instruments effected by this issue is significant. I am curious to know if anyone else has experienced similar issues with their Dingwalls. If not, I must be one unlucky Basstard!
10 years ago
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#20795
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I got pretty bad fret sprout over the winter which got fixed, but that's not what you're talking about I guess. I'll look at my comby and see if I see anything. I haven't noticed this, but I'm not too observant about those sorts of things. Do you live in an extremely dry/wet climate? That might be why you always notice and others don't. Just a thought.
10 years ago
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#20796
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My 5 piece ABII-5 Jatoba and Bubinga necks have remained smooth as a baby's bottom. You can smooth it out with a scouring pad, no big deal.
10 years ago
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#20797
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I live in B.C. It certainly can be damp here but it's neither overly humid nor overly dry. The basses in question came to me from various parts of the world with the conditions preexisting, however.
10 years ago
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#20798
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[quote:34lf5awe]You can smooth it out with a scouring pad, no big deal.[/quote:34lf5awe] Yeah, correcting the problem on a neck is do big deal. It does become more problematic when it exists under a sprayed finish on the body/headstock, though. To me, a significant contributing factor to the allure of Dingwall basses is in the aesthetic. Obviously the tone and playability, etc. top the list of important criteria but it can't be denied that Dingwall basses are truly beautiful examples of art and craftsmanship. As much as I find it distracting and mildly annoying to constantly feel a ridge on a neck while playing, I find it equally bothersome to have the visual splendor of the instrument similarly compromised. Sure, maybe I'm just being Mr. Fussypants but for the kind of money these basses fetch, I think it's within my rights to be so. :wink:
10 years ago
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#20799
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Well, my ABI is fine. I've had it for over a year now, and I haven't seen any shrinkage. Well, I haven't been looking, but I haven't noticed any. No fret sprouting either. If you live on the coast, then you should have about the same weather as me (maybe a bit warmer). It's mostly been kept indoors, temps ranging from maybe 15 degrees C to 25-30 C tops. I don't have a moisture meter, I'm not that anal... :mrgreen: But it hasn't been poolside, or in very dry enivonments or anything. The few times it's been outdoors it's been on the way to my car, or in the boot/trunk (pick your favourite(/favorite). It doesn't get very warm here in west coast Norway, but it's been outside in -15C for maybe an hour total. EDIT: By the way, I like the new(?) "a new post has been made while you were writing, you may want to review your post"-function...
10 years ago
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#20800
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Oh man if it has a poly finish I would immediately sand it off and tung oil it or something similar. I'm on the Tx coast, a natural finished neck is a must imho. [quote="The Basstard":2rbxvjbu][quote:2rbxvjbu]You can smooth it out with a scouring pad, no big deal.[/quote:2rbxvjbu] Yeah, correcting the problem on a neck is do big deal. It does become more problematic when it exists under a sprayed finish, though. To me, a significant contributing factor to the allure of Dingwall basses is in the aesthetic. Obviously the tone and playability, etc. top the list of important criteria but it can't be denied that Dingwall basses are truly beautiful examples of art and craftsmanship. As much as I find it distracting and mildly annoying to constantly feel a ridge on a neck while playing, I find it equally bothersome to have the visual splendor of the instrument similarly compromised. Sure, maybe I'm just being Mr. Fussypants but for the kind of money these basses fetch, I think it's within my rights to be so. :wink:[/quote:2rbxvjbu]
10 years ago
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#20802
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Basstard (that is your username, not me calling you names, by the way) you've now got me all worried about my new Dingwalls.
10 years ago
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#20804
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No worries, GW. That [i:lqbnmxn8]is[/i:lqbnmxn8] my handle and besides, I've certainly been called worse. :lol: It certainly wasn't my intention to cause my fellow Dingwall owners any anxiety over this. While I'm not remotely suggesting an epidemic, it is, however, somewhat of a concern to me given the ratio of effected basses vs. the total number of Dingwall basses I have witnessed. I'm curious to see if any other Dingwall owners chime in with examples of similar occurrences.
10 years ago
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#20805
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I haven't noticed [i:14uj7pnd]too[/i:14uj7pnd] much on mine. My ABII, which doesn't have a solid finish is really smooth. My ABI is nice too. My Combustion does have a bit of fret sprout (as do some of my other basses) and I can feel the seams of the two skunk stripes further down the neck of my SJ5 (older version). I have felt the seams of my ABI before too, but I attribute that to seasonal and humidity changes.
10 years ago
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#20808
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I haven't had any of those issues on my combustion all glue lines are smooth. SmallmouthBass if you need your fret sprouts fixed or any setup or repairs done let me know.
10 years ago
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#20809
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As far as I know, what the OP is seeing is normal. Sheldon has addressed this issue before on the forum. You should repost this in the "Ask Sheldon" section. My Combustion had some "rays", as Sheldon called them, on the body. Humidity is the culprit, but you shouldn't worry. This happens in the winter when humidity is low. The wood shrinks and some of the grain shows under the paint. When the weather heats up, humidity rises, the rays disappear. The swelling of the wood will not be enough to crack the finish. The same applies to the neck. Mark
10 years ago
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#20810
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Everyone of our basses will show signs of wood movement if they are not kept at a constant 70F and 42-45% relative humidity for the Canadian models and 50-55% for the Combustuons. It's not just us, check out any guitar with expensive woods - PRS for example. Obviously maintaining these conditions isn't practical so you're going to see the effects in the flatness of the finish. Feeling movement in the neck lams weird's people out. It bugs me too. Here's the situation. Too rigid a glue in that application would lead to stress cracks either on the glue line or right next to it. I used to see this in my repair business. Necks are flexible, spend a lot of time vibrating under tension and are subjected to widely varied temp/humidity conditions. A glue with some give to it is needed. The majority of our necks have been laminated with Titebond original - the standard of the guitar industry for 50 years. In an attempt to safely reduce the neck lam ridging effect, over the last year and a half we've worked with the manufacturer to fine tune another one of their products with our process. So far this has reduced the ridging effect on the neck lams significantly without introducing the risk of glue line fractures.
10 years ago
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#20874
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[quote="Sheldon Dingwall":1yb3sg2b]...Feeling movement in the neck lams weird's people out. It bugs me too...[/quote:1yb3sg2b] I've had this with my old ABII and my current Dingwall: an SJ5 - I just carefully used fine wire wool, with the grain of course - and the ridges disappeared... Easy does it! :wink:
10 years ago
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#20918
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Huh. Interesting update Sheldon. I know that this has been sort of on the radar for a long time (Back in 2005 when I bought my AB-1, I emailed about this...I remember you telling me to keep my bass out of the basement, which is funny because it's never been to a basement!). After a while I got used to the necks having this happen. And for several years I kept my basses (when not gigging or practicing) in a room with a humidifier set to the proper %, and with several other humidity monitors to verify. What I found was once the joints expand, unless you sand them back, they'll never shrink back. It hasn't impacted the stability of the neck or any instrument integrity that I can discern. I never ended up sanding down or steel wooling the neck just because I didn't want to mess with the overall feel of it, which I love and am somewhat superstitious about. My Rastaburst has a poly finish to the neck (both front and back) and I was somewhat surprised to find that it too had the seams become prominent. Again, I've done nothing to it and it's been very solid along the way with consistent and steady playing. I've never had the body seams on either instrument do anything. Although I have a PRS bass that's had finish shrinking in the seams AND the grain. For a bass that retailed at $2200 I find that to be a bit off putting. I think that most guys who have come from a background of the ubiquitous one piece neck, having a multi-lam neck that has seems is new and uncharted territory. And while I know its not a 'problem' mechanically, I think it poses a "problem" from the aspect of image/marketing more than anything else, which of course, is important too.
10 years ago
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#20919
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[quote="BurningSkies":k6h14ft2]Huh. Interesting update Sheldon. I know that this has been sort of on the radar for a long time (Back in 2005 when I bought my AB-1, I emailed about this...I remember you telling me to keep my bass out of the basement, which is funny because it's never been to a basement!). After a while I got used to the necks having this happen. And for several years I kept my basses (when not gigging or practicing) in a room with a humidifier set to the proper %, and with several other humidity monitors to verify. What I found was once the joints expand, unless you sand them back, they'll never shrink back. It hasn't impacted the stability of the neck or any instrument integrity that I can discern. I never ended up sanding down or steel wooling the neck just because I didn't want to mess with the overall feel of it, which I love and am somewhat superstitious about. My Rastaburst has a poly finish to the neck (both front and back) and I was somewhat surprised to find that it too had the seams become prominent. Again, I've done nothing to it and it's been very solid along the way with consistent and steady playing. I've never had the body seams on either instrument do anything. Although I have a PRS bass that's had finish shrinking in the seams AND the grain. For a bass that retailed at $2200 I find that to be a bit off putting. I think that most guys who have come from a background of the ubiquitous one piece neck, having a multi-lam neck that has seems is new and uncharted territory. And while I know its not a 'problem' mechanically, I think it poses a "problem" from the aspect of image/marketing more than anything else, which of course, is important too.[/quote:k6h14ft2] I once asked Mike Tobias about this years ago when he did laminated necks. His response was "Yeah it sucks doesn't it." It seemed at the time he didn't care to look into it any further than that. I'm not slagging Mikes methodology, just illustrating that this is common to a lot of builders.
10 years ago
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#20923
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[quote="Sheldon Dingwall":2wf1c9in] I once asked Mike Tobias about this years ago when he did laminated necks. His response was "Yeah it sucks doesn't it." It seemed at the time he didn't care to look into it any further than that. I'm not slagging Mikes methodology, just illustrating that this is common to a lot of builders.[/quote:2wf1c9in] I would think that unless you used a very heavy finish coat, you would get this situation. It doesn't surprise me that that was Mike's reaction. I met him a few years ago, and he seemed gruff but nice. I'm guessing he decided it wasn't worth losing sleep over.
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