Monday, 05 October 2009
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Hi everyone. My church is getting ready to make the move to an Aviom in-ear monitor system. I've used Avioms in the past but only with headphones and not with my Dingwall. I'd like to see what you fellow Dingwallers are using out there in IEM (in ear monitor) territory. I want to get the best monitor for the money, but still retain, as best as possbile, that ridiculous low end clarity that I get on my ABII-5 through my stage rig. I know that "chest thud" is going to pretty much disappear with no rig, but I still want to hear the monster low B and the fidelity of my ABII-5. I plan to keep using my Eden wt550 head's direct out as a "preamp / DI", which is how the FOH takes my signal now although my 2x10 cab carries 90% of the room volume for my bass. Eventually, I will swap that for a dedicated tube DI (REDDI or Demeter), but first I need to find the right IEM. Some stuff to discuss: Universal fits vs. custom? Dual driver vs. triple drivers? Avoim digital signal vs. analog monitors (better, sterile, warm?) I'd love to hear what you all are using! Thanks.
12 years ago
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#14189
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Hmm, our church tried the Aviom in ear monitors about 7 years ago (universal fit). I was the first one to pull one out of my ear, then both, I preferred to be able to hear the drummer real time even if it was the dull tap of his sticks on electronics. One by one, everyone on stage went back to using wedge monitors. I hope this isn't discouraging, and maybe we needed to give the system more time and tweaking, but, been there, done that, wasn't happy.
12 years ago
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#14190
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I love the sound of direct bass live through IEM's and the Aviom.
12 years ago
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#14191
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[quote="rollerberg2000":1z5uwqy6]Hmm, our church tried the Aviom in ear monitors about 7 years ago (universal fit). I was the first one to pull one out of my ear, then both, I preferred to be able to hear the drummer real time even if it was the dull tap of his sticks on electronics. One by one, everyone on stage went back to using wedge monitors. I hope this isn't discouraging, and maybe we needed to give the system more time and tweaking, but, been there, done that, wasn't happy.[/quote:1z5uwqy6] Sounds like, more than anything, you needed somebody who knew what they were doing controling the monitor mix(es). There's a big difference between what you'd send to wedge monitors and what you'd send to IEMs.
12 years ago
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#14206
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Keep 'em coming guys. Rollerberg - sorry to hear that. In our case, we're committing 100% and need to get the wedges / amps off the stage. Our worship hall is only 40' x 60' (maybe 350-400 seats) so you can imagine how loud it gets with a full band. Funkshwey - what IEM are you using / like? davio - I agree. Our church is very blessed to have 3 extremely competent sound engineers. One does audio mixing professionally and the other is his wife!! The third is a cool dude who did FOH engineering for large christian tours back in the 80's (Vineyard, Brian Duncan, lots of the Calvary Chapel based bands). I'm confident we will get the best sound into the Avoim A/D converter as possible.
12 years ago
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#14222
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We went to Aviom and IEM's a couple of years back. definitely takes some getting used to. I've tried the one ear in and one out method, which works sometimes. But when things get loud, need to have both in to get a clear sense of what's going on. we're using the 'cheap' shure scl5's. I like the 'christmas tree' ear buds because they provide good sound isolation. Drummer uses headphones to get better bass response. the hardest thing for me is listening to the mix in the aviom vs the mix in the house. the aviom mix (direct out from board) is definitely on the mid-treble side. scl5's just can't do the deep bass. they seem like they are voiced for guitar/vocals. I boost the bass and cut treble on the aviom. the mix in the house sounds fine - tuned completely differently. I will play with bass boost and treble cut - depending on the feel of the song. I'm sure you'll work it out. It is nice to get the stage volume down (gone).
12 years ago
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#14254
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[quote="reddavid":4af9uu7a]scl5's just can't do the deep bass. they seem like they are voiced for guitar/vocals. [/quote:4af9uu7a] This is what I keep in other forums. Any of you guys using custom molded in ears? Better bass definition?
12 years ago
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#14255
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[quote="Brim":2uiusatw][quote="reddavid":2uiusatw]scl5's just can't do the deep bass. they seem like they are voiced for guitar/vocals. [/quote:2uiusatw] This is what I keep in other forums. Any of you guys using custom molded in ears? Better bass definition?[/quote:2uiusatw] I've only used non custom molded, when fitting firmly in your ear they always sound bassier and full, same with drums too. But when you start moving around they come out a little and lose bass response.
12 years ago
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#14256
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[quote="Funkshwey":351xyykm]I've only used non custom molded, when fitting firmly in your ear they always sound bassier and full, same with drums too. But when you start moving around they come out a little and lose bass response.[/quote:351xyykm] ...which is the main benefit of custom molded ear pieces.
12 years ago
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#14257
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[quote="davio":v2s956ge][quote="Funkshwey":v2s956ge]I've only used non custom molded, when fitting firmly in your ear they always sound bassier and full, same with drums too. But when you start moving around they come out a little and lose bass response.[/quote:v2s956ge] ...which is the main benefit of custom molded ear pieces.[/quote:v2s956ge] I need them badly.
12 years ago
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#14261
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Go to any audiologist with ~$100 and you've got yourself a deal.
12 years ago
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#14264
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I use an in-ear monitor for the vocal mix, but do not usually put my bass into the PA. Nonetheless, some observations. As stated, the key to good bass response, in addition to the frequency response of the earbud itself, is the fit in the ear. Unless you go to an audiologist for custom molds, it is pretty much a crap-shoot. You buy a set of earbuds and then try all the different earpieces, hoping that one pair will fit. I was lucky. My Sennheiser IE-8 earbuds make a tight fit, isolate attenuate outside noise at 26 dB, and have a pretty solid bass response. They also have an adjustment on each earpiece to crank the bass response if you need more bass. I am surprised at how many rack-mountable wireless in-ear transmitters have the antenna on the back. Duh? If you want the antenna to see the light of day you need to take up another half-space of rack real estate for a front antenna mount and run a cable from the back of the transmitter to the front-mounted antenna. I got an Audio-Technica M2 wireless monitor system primarily because of the front antenna mount. Good luck,
12 years ago
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#14265
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[quote="amodeo@mitre.org":2te5tj4r]I am surprised at how many rack-mountable wireless in-ear transmitters have the antenna on the back. Duh? If you want the antenna to see the light of day you need to take up another half-space of rack real estate for a front antenna mount and run a cable from the back of the transmitter to the front-mounted antenna. I got an Audio-Technica M2 wireless monitor system primarily because of the front antenna mount.[/quote:2te5tj4r] That's why several companies like Sure make [url=http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Shure-WA503-Antenna-Conversion-Kit?sku=270192:2te5tj4r]these bad boys[/url:2te5tj4r].
12 years ago
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#14272
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Our church uses an Aviom system currently. I played a Dingwall ABI a few years back with this system. Our system is such that each of us has control of our own "mini" mixer in front of us. We can add/cut who we want. The only the the sound guys deal with is the overall gain. I used some shure in ears one in and one out for a bit but as others have said the bass response was very poor. Ive since switched to a pair of Cans...a 1000 times better than the little ear buds. Yes they can be an eye sore but if Im doing things right no one is looking at me any way :).. My only gripe is hopefully your sound guy isnt a tweaker., Ours is and a sweet mix one Sun can sound terrible the next. Give them time to get things right then encourage em to leave crap alone. Lastly...Ive been through a TON of basses...I still can say the Dingwall absolutely kills the rest when using IEMs...Cant describe how it sounds so fantastic but it does...Why is sold it...Well the OCD told me so
12 years ago
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#14281
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I've used IEM's for about 6 years. By wasting a lot of money I've found the following: (for me of course...) 1. Soft Silicone custom molds provide by far the most bass and most comfortable fit. 2. Dual or triple drivers provide better bass punch. 3. #1 and #2 are almost of no value if you don't make sure you get a first class audiologist to get you a good fit. I've had several "free fittings" at NAMM and the impressions were terrible. I thought it was the drivers or etc.; got them replaced, etc. FINALLY - I spent time asking questions and looking more "intelligently" at my molds. The best bass response is the result of a tight seal. So basically the instructions are: "deep impressions with as much concha (including the helix) as possible." When I got a great impression, my Sensaphonics 2xs's and Ambient IEM's were 1000 times "better" I prefer IEM's to anything now because the separation and articulation I get in a band context helps me play more precise... The Ambient IEM's, while expensive, are incredible to blend the outside (stereo field) with direct.
12 years ago
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#14291
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When You start getting into custom molds get ready to bring the $$$ Not sure its worth it if your a volunteer player such as myself. As I mention a nice $100-150 pair of cans have great frequency response and do the job nicely. They also keep the driver away from the ear drum. I always thought actual ear buds put the sound way to close thus causing damage.
12 years ago
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#14292
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[quote="LightGroove":y128btyy]. I always thought actual ear buds put the sound way to close thus causing damage.[/quote:y128btyy] I think it's SPL not driver proximity that is bad for the ears! :wink: But for sure the minimum for silicone custom fit's are near $750 and that's serious money. Good headphones are cheaper and sound fantastic. I'd recommend trying some open ear even though the bass is reduced cause they can get pretty hot and sweaty when you're playing for a while. That's the biggest complaint I hear about...
12 years ago
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#14295
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[quote="LightGroove":1ef2pg8x]When You start getting into custom molds get ready to bring the $$$ Not sure its worth it if your a volunteer player such as myself. As I mention a nice $100-150 pair of cans have great frequency response and do the job nicely. They also keep the driver away from the ear drum. I always thought actual ear buds put the sound way to close thus causing damage.[/quote:1ef2pg8x] Isn't that the whole idea of in ear monitoring. With a proper seal, you get it closer to your ear drum so you actually turn down the volume.
12 years ago
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#14296
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[quote="Brim":4fg7978h]Isn't that the whole idea of in ear monitoring. With a proper seal, you get it closer to your ear drum so you actually turn down the volume.[/quote:4fg7978h] The proper seal does not necessarily relate to how close to your ear drum the driver is or how close the final tip of the impression is to your ear. The drivers are all outside the ear. But the magic is what happens after that...
12 years ago
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#14716
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I have used both Shure E5s and now Future Sonics (Ear Monitors brand) over the last 6-8 years. They were both pricey, especially when you factor in the audiologist visit (be sure to get your hearing checked when you're there just so you know where you stand). I always had issues with the E5s and the silicone pieces. They deteriorate gradually and they do not provide ideal seal/isolation when you are opening your mouth to sing. If you don't sing, this might still be a good option, but my E5s were also prone to cracking/breaking where the ear piece fits onto the driver. The people at Shure even acknowledged it was an issue. Due to these reasons, I ended up with the Future Sonics and couldn't be happier. They are rigid rather than silicone and the fit is different because of this, but once you're used to them (took me about 2 hours total to get used to the fit), they are incredible. By the way, they have the market cornered on bass response. By far and away the best out there. Of course, be willing to shell out $900+ to get them. Future Sonics also offers a less expensive model, the Atrio, which has similar properties to the Ear Monitors but with a generic ear fit. Hope this helps somewhat. Rob
12 years ago
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#15070
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You guys should really look into JH Audio if you're serious about IEM quality. They do phenomenal work, and offer ambient vent options on every model. Of course, like the best things in any hobby, they can be awfully expensive. Their top model, the JH13, is $1100. The lowest model is $400.
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